Ellis/LS, Spiders, and Quantum Physics/Biocentrism

I was recently having a discussion about the concept common to biocentrism and quantum physics where they say reality literally ceases to be when not observed (this was in the context of an article I saw/shared recently).

Someone asked, “Oh yeah? well if you have 3 people all close their eyes at the same time, how does reality know how to come back? why doesn’t it ever come back wrong?”*

I joked back, "Well they say you are never more than 3ft away from a spider, maybe the spiders aren’t closing their eyes :stuck_out_tongue: ". (continued below)

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Well that was meant as a funny little joke but there’s probably some truth to it. If there really are that many spiders with that many eyes, we may owe a lot of static reality to their constantly observing our world and thereby collapsing the waves of probability.

That seems to feed directly into the lore surrounding DKMU’s Linking Sigil and it’s association to spiders, some even saying the related entity Ellis is a spider herself.

There would literally be a web of perception (owed in large part to spiders) which keeps reality more or less intact, surrounding our entire world. And any attempt to alter reality would have to contend with this in some way or another. Maybe via a web of intention crafted by mankind (LS).

Just my random shower thought of the day, feel free to pick it up and run with it.

Tldr version:

Biocentrism is often taken for granted to be human centric, but all manner of beasts and even trees observe and collapse probability. There’s almost always something watching

(*my more serious answers to the line of questioning above involved the self remaining even when nothing else does, and that sometimes during gnosis when our conscious perception is completely shut down reality does NOT come back the same, and that is magick)

I blame Niels Bohr. There are serious problems with the “observation collapses reality” ideas that are basically all down to Bohr and Heisenberg. If we take the above musings to their ultimate conclusion, we come to the question: did reality exist before there was a living thing to observe it? If so, where did life come from if there was no reality existing? Or as John Stewart Bell put it: “Is a bacterium enough to collapse reality? Or did it have to wait for a more sophisticated observer with a PhD?”

The usual two answers to this are either panpsychism (everything is conscious) or God is the ultimate observer. Both of these (sort of) keep reality around before the presence of what we normally think of as ‘life’.

Rather than resort to either of these answers, it might be easier to ask “what is wrong with the observation collapsing reality idea?”

People talk about the quantum multiverse, but they don’t usually talk about what a person’s experience is like in such a multiverse.

Simply put, what Bohr et al. described as “reality collapsing on observation” can also be seen as “the moment when your experience of those events is reduced to a single outcome”. It is a figure and ground problem. Reality does not collapse, you end up experiencing an outcome in a single universe. Of course, there are versions of you that experience all the other outcomes, but each version is confined to a single outcome. It is a limitation of human beings (and probably all other living things) that they can only experience a single universe at any one time.

I like to compare this dichotomy to the people who thought the Sun went around the Earth. It’s the easiest conclusion to come to, because we see the Sun move and the Earth doesn’t seem to move. But it’s wrong :slight_smile:

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Just cause your eye’s are closed doesnt equate to you no longer observing reality.

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The gnostic point of view when god split himself into all life. Man came before the universe. And the universe followed.